Curse

Arathorn5000 · Oct 02, 2005, 11:07 AM // 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

i actually went and tried this in CA, i just went in, kept doing the divine spirit combo thing and then just spammed every skill in my bar. i never ran out. what was pretty annoying was that you had to redo it every 15 seconds, something that can be a problem. also, if someone removes your enchantment and you dont notice it you could screw yourself, but the 15 seconds means it cant be that bad. anyway pretty cool overall ^^

Just run E/Mo with max ether prodigy. Spam as much healing as you want, it gives 105 energy per minute in addition to your 80 energy per minute regular regen.

Dont Look At My · Oct 02, 2005, 11:54 AM // 11:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by snepp

Absolutely self explanatory, if everything were so clear cut it would make communication that much easier.

If you're a mesmer and you have 16 domination, I would proceed to kick you from my group.

If you're an elem and you have 16 fire, I would proceed to kick you from my group.

If you're a necro and you have 16 blood, I would proceed to kick you from my group.

If you're a warrior and you have 16 axe, I would proceed to kick you from my group.

If you're a ranger and you have 16 marksman, I would proceed to kick you from my group.

Now that I've provided all the information necessary, with all the explanation that's needed, the discussion can continue.

just one ... erm ... personal question. Do you suck or are you trying to be gay?
Because I'm a bad guesser, just tell me which of both, please.

knives · Oct 02, 2005, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by rii

You dont want 16 weapon attribute.....

you play pve or something?

I do play PvE along with competitve PvP. And if you take it into consideration, how would taking 16 in DF benefit you overall, other than boosting divine boon, which you shouldn't be using anywhere near tombs/gvg. 16 fast cast? 16 exp? Having it at 9 fast cast and about 9-13-14 expertise is enough.

And I never said I did not wan't 16 in a weapon attribute. I was clearly specific enough to say I did not want 16 DF, and if you think about (which I am sure most of you haven't, you just want it laid straight out for you) there is not more benefit of doing so than having say, 16 strength.

Now can we please get back on topic. -_-

Mantra of Recall + Contemplation of Purity has been there forever, 20 second recharge, 1 second cast time for mantra, also removes hexes and conditions proportional to the number of enchantmens removed.

snepp · Oct 02, 2005, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dont Look At My

just one ... erm ... personal question. Do you suck or are you trying to be gay?
Because I'm a bad guesser, just tell me which of both, please.

Neither.

sar·casm

2. A form of wit that is marked by the use of sarcastic language and is intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or ridicule.

smurfhunter · Oct 03, 2005, 04:00 AM // 04:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by knives

Ok then.

If you do use that combo, you take up an elite slot, and a couple of seconds for casting that. Every 15 seconds you MUST cast the glyph along with DS which takes up approx 2 seconds (I know glyph is 1 sec, dont remember DS) and in those 2 seconds a party member could die. If you and another monk run the same build, then you both would need to take that time to prepare when under heavy fire. If one of you runs it the other monk will eventually run out of energy and you would take some time to do this. Also relying on ONE enchantment to make you gain energy is not wise. There are so many enchant strippers and the target usually gets rended so that = waste.

Therefore if you max divine favor for a regular build, it would seem pointless to me, and if you max it with this build when you aren't in random arena it is pretty much the same.

very weak reasoning. DS is actually one of those 1/2 second things and the glyph is 1 second. its about the same as using energy drain as your elite really. not that i was ever a fan of that, but its still the same idea.

and cmon no one randomely goes around debuffing monks. you debuff right before you attack, same as it always was. in that case, you can spend the remaining 5 seconds while your glyph recharges kiting warriors. i mean cmon you would need a very special situation for that to happen.

the lack of an elite is an issue, so IMO (in tombs) this would be best on a heal monk, where instead of using WoH, you can spam heal other. and since you arent using a secondary here, you can easily go 16 heal/15 divine. like i said before, thats exactly the same as 16 heal, 10 divine and 10 inspiration or w/e

bottom line, stop covering your ass about that one statement. sure, you were wrong. people make mistakes, dont worry. just dont start justifying it because its just plain wrong.

and who said spam ether prodigy? hello? you really want to exhaust out a MONK, that has about 45 energy to start with?

cpukilla · Oct 03, 2005, 04:38 AM // 04:38

Ok, here is the most overpowered prot monk I could make with the new divine spirit/glyph combo.

Monk/Ele

Divine 11 (+4)
Protection (0 (+1)
Earth 10

Reversal of Fortune
Gaurdian
Mend Ailment
Holy Veil
Glyph of Renewal (Elite)
Divine Spirit
Kinetic Armor
Res Signet

I have been toying around with this in arena and it is ... awesome. Good hex protection, good condition removal, excellent armor, the biggest weakness is to armor ignoring attacks. A sac necro (along with 2-3 other attackers) took me down, backfire can hurt if they catch you with holy veil down, or touches, necro attacks are dangerous. Enchantment removal is obviously a weakness, but even with kinetic and spirit down, you still have a solid core build that will be effective anyway. Of course, with divine spirit up you have nearly unlimited healing potential. Good luck and have fun with this before it is nerfed to something reasonable.

knives · Oct 03, 2005, 05:55 AM // 05:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

very weak reasoning. DS is actually one of those 1/2 second things and the glyph is 1 second. its about the same as using energy drain as your elite really. not that i was ever a fan of that, but its still the same idea.

and cmon no one randomely goes around debuffing monks. you debuff right before you attack, same as it always was. in that case, you can spend the remaining 5 seconds while your glyph recharges kiting warriors. i mean cmon you would need a very special situation for that to happen.

the lack of an elite is an issue, so IMO (in tombs) this would be best on a heal monk, where instead of using WoH, you can spam heal other. and since you arent using a secondary here, you can easily go 16 heal/15 divine. like i said before, thats exactly the same as 16 heal, 10 divine and 10 inspiration or w/e

bottom line, stop covering your ass about that one statement. sure, you were wrong. people make mistakes, dont worry. just dont start justifying it because its just plain wrong.

and who said spam ether prodigy? hello? you really want to exhaust out a MONK, that has about 45 energy to start with?

I'd appreciate it if people would actually try it out in tombs/gvg rather than theory crafting this. That 1 + 1/2 second really does make a difference. Also doing it every 15 seconds (which is pretty short once you realize it in tombs) is also another handicap. I never said that people randomly debuff monks.

Quote:

and the target usually gets rended

And no, I still think I am right. Hmm your reasoning is also weak, when you put points into the inspiration line you get skills like inspired hex, drain ench, and edrain. WIth renewal all you get is unlimited energy for 15 seconds, every 15 seconds you remember to cast it. In reality there are only a handful of skills that a good heal monk actually uses, I always wonder what to do with my empty slots, then I realize I still have the inspiration line to delve into.

a_scrawny_gnoll01 · Oct 03, 2005, 06:06 AM // 06:06

...looks around blindly...

"Forum trolls are everywhere!"

<-- procedes to find another forum to spam.

In all honesty... people are way to edgy. He had a point, as the fact of dumping 16 skill into one attribute can be wasteful at times.
If someone has a build revolving around 16, then fine: they better own with that wasted 75 hp and extra skills that could be in that slot.

Look at the situation and understand it before people start jumping on eachother because the want to be the first mean kid to look cool by making someone else look like an idiot. That patetic ideology that some people carry around with them bothers me.

And if anyone finds this offensive, it is not the point, and I apologize for my blunt approach.

Red Locust · Oct 03, 2005, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Knivez, I don't really see your point here. Whether or not 16 Divine Favor is something desirable on a normal monk is totally irrelevant to the discussion. 16DF works particularly well with this build because it lengthens divine spirit's duration (17s.) and gets the most use out of the 5e. healing spells which you will be spamming.

If you're saying that being able to fit up to 11 spells within those 17s. and have them all cost 1e. is not even worth the time, then let's look at your alternative you propose: Mantra of Recall.

MoR costs you 15e. (because running it without contemplation just doesn't work) and gives you a less than 25e. return. That's less than 10e. net gain, plus a hex/condition removal or two. Not too great.
Now take into account the fact that you're removing all enchantments on yourself, and that the contemplation of purity heal and removal will often either be a waste (if you're not getting attacked) or not be an option (if you're getting attacked and have protective enchantments on yourself). Things aren't looking so good now.

Now let's look at DS. 17s. of reduced energy costs. Provided you spam spells throughout its duration, you could fit in around 11 spells, or a ~44e. gain, all for a 15e. startup cost. It's also quite easy to notice pauses in combat where it's safe to spend a couple of seconds setting yourself up (especially when you have 2 other monks covering for you). Now there's always the problem of enchantment removal, but a few cover enchants should take care of all but the strongest enchant strips (which incidentally recharge a lot slower or cost a lot more than this combo).

Compare this to Offering of blood, which gives you ~12 unconditional energy every 15s. Divine spirit is definitely comparable.

Quote:

I always wonder what to do with my empty slots, then I realize I still have the inspiration line to delve into.

Then you're doing something wrong. There's a reason monks don't take rez signets, and that's not because they don't match the blue on the rest of the bar. Monks have the least space on their skillbars; you pretty much always have a long list of things you wanted to take but couldn't. I'd gladly trade 3 conditional energy management skills for one conditonal energy management skill and 2 utility skills.

jesh · Oct 03, 2005, 06:52 AM // 06:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Locust

MoR costs you 15e. (because running it without contemplation just doesn't work) and gives you a less than 25e. return. That's less than 10e. net gain, plus a hex/condition removal or two. Not too great.
Now take into account the fact that you're removing all enchantments on yourself, and that the contemplation of purity heal and removal will often either be a waste (if you're not getting attacked) or not be an option (if you're getting attacked and have protective enchantments on yourself). Things aren't looking so good now.

That's the old mantra. That spell was updated long ago, it's actually better now. You don't need Contemplation if you don't want it, you still net the energy whether you end it, it times out, or someone strips it.

Arathorn5000 · Oct 03, 2005, 07:07 AM // 07:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

and who said spam ether prodigy? hello? you really want to exhaust out a MONK, that has about 45 energy to start with?

No. I said use an E/Mo with ether prodigy for healing. And you don't 'spam' it, you recast it every 25 seconds (at which point 8/10 of the exhaustion has worn off).

Dont Look At My · Oct 03, 2005, 10:19 AM // 10:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Locust

Then you're doing something wrong. There's a reason monks don't take rez signets, and that's not because they don't match the blue on the rest of the bar. Monks have the least space on their skillbars; you pretty much always have a long list of things you wanted to take but couldn't. I'd gladly trade 3 conditional energy management skills for one conditonal energy management skill and 2 utility skills.

I totally agree, thats what I always say. My worst ennemi is not the warrior thats attacking me, but the full skillbar.
And actually, against a good mesmer, you're RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOd if you have DS. 15e to cast. 1/2 sec later: BANG! inspire enchant.
ok, you used glyph, so you can cast it again, again 15e away. BANG! 1/2 later: enchant removal.
Now you're left with like 10energy, no energy management skills, you will be able to cast like 2-3 spells and your team goes down like shit.

Now thats not a real good option, there better way against a good team. DS only works fine against noobs, as most of the "very good builds" as people like to call them, do.

Gabriel Fallen Monk · Oct 03, 2005, 12:25 PM // 12:25

I tried this combo like 20 minutes after the update release, divine spirit looked so sexy with glyph of renewal. Yes it does sorta work but there are too many variables that can mess things up.

That being said I do think Glyph of renewal is stupidly powerful and theres lots of other skills that can be used to make it that much better.

One example is diversion and energy tap for a mesmer or even shame / power leak / anything like that. A double power leak is enough to drop any monk to zero.

Rangers getting you down? How about a glyphed aegis, or if your not in tombs maybe a glyphed swirling aura? thats 75% to block arrows and any magical projectiles (bye-bye lightning orb and stone daggers) and it lasts foreever when glyphed. It really is a very cool elite now. The ability to use any spell in the game every 15 seconds (plus casting time) is oh too sexy.

Oh and I forgot to mention that glyphing Shielding hands is stupidly powerful in a two or more monk setting.

Dont Look At My · Oct 03, 2005, 12:31 PM // 12:31

shielding hands???
what are you saying. The only thing it works nicely for is anti-FOTM and anti-IWAY.
you cant really use shielding hands against air ele spikers.

Anyways, thats what they wanted, they made glyph now worth an elite. Use your brains to get a nice skill that you can just double. Thats the way they want you to use that new updated elite. Get some changes into the old lamer builds.

Patrograd · Oct 03, 2005, 12:47 PM // 12:47

I might be wrong, but I think that 16 divine favour adds 48 heal points to every spell cast, 96 added to healing touch. It also vastly powers up skills like divine healing to the mid/high 200 point mark on all nearby allies. That means for altars and other healing balls you are looking at a very, very powerful tool.

I'm not saying that this is necessarily the way to go, but you cant just dismiss it in such a closed minded fashion and hope to be taken too seriously.

Dont Look At My · Oct 03, 2005, 12:52 PM // 12:52

or just look at divine intervention, life saver Number °1° in HoH and GvG.

smurfhunter · Oct 03, 2005, 03:06 PM // 15:06

just fyi, i used this in CA/TA somewhat. it wasnt 'godly', but it definetly had none of the problems knives was talking about. i seriously doubt knives ever used it because just to let you know what actually went wrong with this build (i did it on a prot), is that you rely on spamming stuff like rof to get your health back, and it doesnt work so well if you try to kite at the same time. also, strangely enough, you run out of energy because the glyph is 5 energy and DF is like 10 (or 15 i cant remember), and you notice your energy kind of slowly spiraling down. recasting it was never a problem. and if you somehow get drained, you feel like an idiot waiting for that 15 energy to recast the glyph + DF, and in alot of situation spamming all your skills wont save you from like 2 warriros and a mesmer. results were pretty mixed...

and i kind of agree, IMO if i had infinite energy without using a skill i would still want to squeeze 10 skills into there. i never have 'extra room'.

i still think ether prodigy is a short term energy management thing because it causes exhaustion. but i havent tried it post update so idk really.

oh and this is a bit off topic, but i noticed people still using echo on stuff like meteor shower. glyph of renewal would do the same thing, only a bit better. aaanyway its a little dumb because no one echoes meteor shower anymore, everyone seems to echo flameburst or something now. back on topic....

Gabriel Fallen Monk · Oct 03, 2005, 03:40 PM // 15:40

IMHO shielding hands owns. And who in their right mind would go into any battle without protective spirit? It is a key spell to stopping may kinds of dmg.

All i gotta say is bring on the kindle ranger spikers I'll take my constant shileding hands anyday.

atreyu83 · Oct 03, 2005, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

also, strangely enough, you run out of energy because the glyph is 5 energy and DF is like 10 (or 15 i cant remember), and you notice your energy kind of slowly spiraling down. ..

This is why it is nice to have 16 or 15 divin favor (if your very quick to refresh the combo) because you can cast divine spirit while you still have divine spirit on you.. so the combo costs 10 mana not 15. Using mostly 5 mana spells and refreshing the combo as soon as glyf is recharged you can chain cast non stop and your mana goes UP.

knives · Oct 05, 2005, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

just fyi, i used this in CA/TA somewhat. it wasnt 'godly', but it definetly had none of the problems knives was talking about. i seriously doubt knives ever used it because just to let you know what actually went wrong with this build (i did it on a prot), is that you rely on spamming stuff like rof to get your health back, and it doesnt work so well if you try to kite at the same time. also, strangely enough, you run out of energy because the glyph is 5 energy and DF is like 10 (or 15 i cant remember), and you notice your energy kind of slowly spiraling down. recasting it was never a problem. and if you somehow get drained, you feel like an idiot waiting for that 15 energy to recast the glyph + DF, and in alot of situation spamming all your skills wont save you from like 2 warriros and a mesmer. results were pretty mixed...

Funny that I mentioned that I recommended it for CA/4v4 arenas, but I said I was speaking in terms of 8v8.

Quote:

Then you're doing something wrong. There's a reason monks don't take rez signets, and that's not because they don't match the blue on the rest of the bar. Monks have the least space on their skillbars; you pretty much always have a long list of things you wanted to take but couldn't. I'd gladly trade 3 conditional energy management skills for one conditonal energy management skill and 2 utility skills.

As I said, on a heal monk. On a prot monk I know I don't have room for anything but mostly prot skills. On a heal monk you normally take:

Heal Touch
Orison
Heal Seed
Dwaynas Kiss
Heal Other/WoH

Signet of Devotion I tend to stay away from, and if I have 3 e management skills I know I will have energy when I need it.